Q:When you took charge, you were 31 years old? Was your crusade the result of youthful josh or something else motivated you?

First of all, a minor error, I was 35 then. Then, this was the 10th district that I had been given charge of. So, initially, when I joined service and I was 23, it might have been only josh. But when you have dealt with nine districts before that and already had so many confrontations with vested interests, it can’t be just josh. Lucknow till then was not particularly known for violent crimes. But now in 1997, all of a sudden, there was an eruption of violent crime. This particular gang led by Sriprakash Shukla had built up a liaison with the Bihar mafia and the railway headquarters in Gorakhpur. People were being killed in the middle of the city, in the midst of the police. Something really had to be done about this, and that was the motivating factor, if you like. Otherwise, just part of the job.

Q:Did you think it worth it all after your operation? Or the more things change, the more they remain the same?

In totality, one cannot say that the system has been changed. But in terms of actual change, it was seen that a Special Task Force was needed for such an operation. You have the police stations to deal with the day-to-day law and order situations, but they can’t be expected to battle organised crime. Criminals who use mobile phones, air travel, fast cars and so on. How can a police station match that? But after our operation, other states picked up the idea and set up units in Bihar and UP and....In that sense, it was certainly worth it.

Q:Do you think the UP mafia is deadlier than its counterparts in the Bihar belt orMumbai-Dubai?

Since the UP mafia had struck up a Bihar connection, the combination became deadlier. The Mumbai-Dubai mafia was first into gold smuggling, bootlegging, then narcotics, gambling, prostitution, extortion. In a city like Mumbai, because of the geographical location and the economics of the area, the use of violence is only in extreme cases. Here, in UP, it’s mainly contracts and the railways. It’s a question of replacing one group with another, to establish supremacy by any means. Therefore, any means are used and is much more violent than the other regions.

Q:The brief of the film says, you came up against the contracts, the politician-police-builder nexus, criminal gangs, sophisticated red-tapism, ISI connections, the criminalisation of university students. Which of these did you find the most disconcerting? Was it the criminalisation of students?

The criminalisation of university students was there before Shukla, and it did become a trend.If you remember the Calcutta case of Lytton Hotel in 1998, when the proprietor of the hotel, Mr Panwani, was to be abducted and the attempt was foiled in a shootout. One of the gang was a leader of a Lucknow students union and he recognised some of our police officers. There was Mange who got shot and had to be hospitalised, but bribed his way to escape. It’s certainly very disturbing to see it as a trend. Even professionally, it becomes more difficult to track down the criminals because they have no records.

Q:The brief goes on to say, “In a way, nothing was new. The only thing different was the approach. And that made the difference.” What was this “different approach”?

Normally, we have to put up a detailed proposal to the government and wait to get the requirements before starting operation. But this was a matter of life and death, we had to get cracking immediately. We had no resources, no cellphones, not even an office, and requested for one of the houses to operate from. That too needed Rs 25,000 for repairs. Just some local resources from the Secret Service funds and a dedicated group of officers. We knew we had to deliver the goods first and then the govcernment would start sanctioning resources. That was the different approach.

Q:Do you consider “encounter specialist” a bad term?

When you see the film, you will see there’s nothing like that. As for an encounter, you have to see how it happens, what is done, what isn’t, before automatically thinking of it as a bad term.

Q:Do you see any similarity in Sehar and Ab Tak Chhappan, both being based on real-life cops and “encounter specialists” to use that term?

Yes, I’ve heard of Ab Tak Chhapan, but the two films are totally different. Sehar is largely about the limitations of the police despite which it manages to do something. Both films may be based on real-life police officers, but the two approaches are very different, the objectives are very different.

Q:You think that the police which was portrayed in a bad light, if not in a buffoon way, for long, is now being shown more sympathetically, even heroically?

Largely, you are right. I am not too familiar with the earlier films, but Ardh Satya, then Shool, were films that handled the police subject sensitively. If today they are being portrayed heroically, it’s a good trend. Not that there are no corrupt police officers, but now at least both sides are being shown, and the people can judge for themselves.

Q:Finally, what motivated you to agree to an admaker’s proposal that you even participated in the script writing for three years? Self-glorification, maybe?

At that time, there was tremendous impact because the Assembly was in session and an announcement was made to much table-thumping and an award was announced to the team, there was much media hype, and India Most Wanted, and the government gave the go-ahead to the operations. When Kabeer Kaushik met me, I found him very serious, he had done a lot of research, talked to so many people. Seeing his sincerity, there was personal chemistry. So, I gave him all the raw material, that was in the public domain, that he wanted. As for the self-glorification factor, absolutely not. But that the operation was successful and applauded by the people is something to feel happy about. I was lucky in building a new team, and that feels good, no doubt about it.